Growing up, my tweenage bedroom was a shrine to The Spice Girls, but more specifically, to Geri Halliwell. Something about Ginger Spice’s high femme dress-everyday-like-Halloween thang stuck for me (along with the whole Feminism Lite thing too.)
But the high-femme-having-fun-with-fashion thing is often expected to clash with the whole having-ideas-and-wanting-to-talk-about-important-ideas thing. It sometimes seems that if I want to be friends with intellectual, sex positive, liberal women there’s a golden rule. In AB rhyme Don’t dress too sexual or too femme, don’t flirt too much or go home with too many men. I asked you guys about this on twitter, and you knew what I was talking about. Sex educator Charlie Glickman, did too, so I skyped him for a longer convo.
“What you are describing is on the spectrum of slutshaming,” Glickman says. “It’s about this impossible standard to live upto, where you are supposed to be attractive but not too sexy. You are to be sexy but not threaten a man’s female partner. Be approachable but not too approachable. Connected but not too flirty.” Don’t threaten a man’s female partner. Yeah… Is this what it comes down to?
I tell Charlie that from what I’ve gathered, there are two things things going on here:
1. It’s the reverberations of feminism. And the second wave which taught that Miss America and heels were tools of the patriarchy. Or as the third wave would say — not really weeding that idea out — it’s part of subscribing to the beauty myth. So, this adherence to a “pretty girl” female gender role is inherently problematic.
2. I’m a writer, so here is my example: Writing “like a guy” is a compliment, writing “like a girl” isn’t even a thing. And not a thing you’d want to hear. It’s somehow better/cooler/smarter when girls shun girl culture, when they like sci-fi over SATC. And in part this just feels like sexism. Charlie said to me, “Just because someone considers themselves part of a sex positive culture or a kink community doesn’t mean that these things (sexism) aren’t still around.”
But, to point #1 (and it’s sensible footwear), is there validity to the idea that adhering to the femme role is problematic? “When we look at what we consider sexual or attractive, people come up with the same images over and over. Advertisers show what sells, porn companies show what sells” says Glickman.
Tavi Gevinson,a blogger to be obsessed with, recently wrote about her personal struggle with wanting to be attractive. She posted a photo of herself in eyeliner & red lipstick, looking (uncharacteristically) “conventionally hawt”. For Tavi, this was hard. This was, as she put it, “beauty privilege”.
But being attractive and dressing to attract are part of human sexuality. What is wrong with dressing sexy, if this is an expression of your sexual being? “Whether its a social thing, or a biological thing — and I think it’s probably a combination of the two — I don’t think [dressing sexy/femme] needs to be something anyone feels guilty about. We can acknowledge, there is a certain amount of privilege to fitting in the gender box, but I don’t think we need to guilt people,” says Glickman.
From my own experience with red lipstick and eyeliner in highschool, I know that in teen girl culture, dressing sexy is often equated with wanting to be pretty and liked, rather than expressing sexuality and wanting to get laid. (Which could be about women not being encouraged to own their desires.)
Glickman gets it, “Theres this way in which we equate being pretty and attractive with being sexually attractive and sexually available. It’s unfortunate that we link all of these things, because they aren’t all the same. It’s possible to look at someone and think they are attractive and pretty even if you don’t want to have sex with them.”
I get where Tavi is coming from. I know femme guilt (and never wanting to see another ironic retro dress) all too well. Femme-guilt is a term you hear more often in the queer community. And it kinda melds with the “good feminists wear flats” rule, as the queer community and feminism have long been tied.
Glickman brings up an interesting point: “I’ve talked with bisexual women, who look stereotypically femme as opposed to queer femme. And they go to these lesbian bars and everyone assumes its their first time or they are slumming or they are the nervous straight women trying to find someone to bring home to her husband…. But among gay men there is a certain amount of privilege from being straight looking in certain circles.” Men have their own gender box to conform to, but I wonder if there is some version of masculine guilt or femme guilt among men.
Not to get all “hey hipsters, isn’t non conformity still a uniform?” But the whole point of questioning gender roles is choosing what you want to keep and what you want to move away from. “My belief is that if we don’t let ourselves do something because its part of the box, we become as much of a prisoner of it as the person who can only do things because they fit into that box. And true freedom only comes when we can pick and choose which things are worth doing and which things aren’t.” Well said, Charlie.
43 Comments
I know exactly what you’re talking about . . as young as maybe 4th grade, I remember thinking: I don’t want to look too pretty or too perfect, because then I won’t have any girl friends . . . then I went through the slutty phase to try & get my boyfriend’s attention yet I felt self-conscious & not sexy at all . . . now all my friends love it when I dress to flatter my figure, which I’m still working on owning. It was one thing to ‘look hawt’ when I was seducing my BF – it feels entirely different, too much, to wear a form-fitting dress to work or a graduation, when I DO feel sexy yet am not ‘using’ that for seduction. Wow, I didn’t even realize that exactly til I put it into words . . . this shit goes deep.
This reason why “masculine guilt” does exist is because even the mere consideration of self-expression or fashion is inherently feminizing. Real men don’t care about fashion. They simply conform. Once you don’t confirm, if you consider how what you wear is expressing yourself, you run the risk of being called gay or queer.
Cheers,
Schmüdde
http://www.schmudde.net
The other thing that we leave out is that when girls do “compete’ in looking mainstream attractive arena, they open themselves up to not only slut shaming from other women, but intense criticism. I remember when I was 14 and coming into my sexual being, I started wearing make-up and bought my first strapless top and I suddenly became much more criticized among my friends, and all girls I knew.
Charlie and I talked about this too, and here is what he had to say: “If you want to get into some of the more nitpicky shamy versions of judging appearances listen to women: she overplucks her eyebrows and her hair is too long, I’ve heard women pick other women apart in excruciating detail. That’s a piece of this dynamic that gets left out. Its one thing to say its about patriarchy and its another thing how women and girls of all ages shame each other into fitting in these roles.”
And Jess, I think there is a thing of well, what is appropriate to wear where, but at the same time it seems there is this element of shaming each other for our sexual selves. As though it’s something to be embarrassed about.
All of this shows up so uniquely and strongly in the fashion blogging world, where the whole “man repeller” and anti dressing sexy phenomenon flourishes. Not being from that world myself or totally immersed in those blogs, I would love to see some insight from anyone who keeps up with them!
I just received a tweet about this that is too good not to share for possible discussion:
@alistasi “I think you have that in the online media world too, esp centered around geek/male-dominated cultures in entertainment, etc.” — http://twitter.com/alistasi
She has a point, because I was thinking that I also see this in poetry/fiction writing circles and in atheism circles. But these are places that are (and have long been) male dominated. It makes sense that the women operating within them would feel like they need to shun their gender role in order to fit in. To be one of the guys, to be taken seriously. But does this do more harm to women as a whole? It ends up seeming that female roles just don’t get taken as seriously.
Curious on any thoughts.
it’s interesting, I think I come from the opposite end of this spectrum. I feel like that all of the AWESOME blogs I read about sexuality (like this one) are from really pretty and very sexy ladies. Also, most of my sex-positive friends are extremely sexy women. There is this whole rockabilly, glam, rocker girl thing going on that’s super awesome, but one that I don’t fit into. I hardly ever wear makeup, I wear my hair short, and I don’t own high heels. These are the ways that I feel comfortable. I don’t dress to repel men or anything, I dress in what I really love, and what makes me feel sexy.
The thing is, I have this strong feeling (and, after all, maybe it’s just in my head) that I am taking less seriously by the sex-postive crowd because I am not overly ‘sexy’. I feel like people think I’m a prude, or that I must not be into kinks, or that I am naive because I don’t wear my sexuality on my sleeve, so to speak. I feel like my opinions are taken less seriously because I have had less sex, even though I am just as positive and engaged in sexual empowerment. I have had plenty of hurtful comments from others insinuating that I am prudish or need to loosen up, just because I express my sexuality differently than they do, or more often because of the way I look. Just because I’m not wearing lipstick doesn’t mean I don’t like sex, in the same way that just because you wear lipstick doesn’t mean you don’t have a brain. I also feel like I get pegged as this man-hater because I believe in feminism and call out bullshit, and because I don’t dress in pink and heels. The truth is, I love men, but I hate patriarchy. Men are just as oppressed from it, and I can still love men and love sex while hating patriarchy.
I think this sort of of shaming goes both ways, and it comes down to being in a society that always puts women in the wrong, and a society filled with self-loathing. We are all made to feel like we are wrong, or less than, or lacking in some way, and we all pass fearful judgements against those who are different from us. It’s hard for me because I think there is this new and really awesome trend of sex-positve femme women, and I feel just as excluded from that as you have from feminism. While I think it’s important to distinguish what is feminism and what is sex-positive (because if these things don’t have definitions, they become meaningless. Just look at the way the GOP is trying to warp feminism), but I wonder at how often we use definitions as means for exclusion.
I also think it’s interesting how both you and Jess’ feelings stemmed from adolescence. I definitely felt the exclusion when my friends started wearing makeup and sharing lip glosses, and I was still in training bras. While I wanted to participate more in those things, I felt like I couldn’t because I wasn’t one of “those girls.” I waited a long time to attend fashion school because I felt like the other students would look at me and say, “you aren’t cool enough to be here.” I was so stunned when I got there and got such positive and welcoming encouragement from everyone, or when I started telling people that I was in fashion school and they would say, “that makes sense, I’ve always loved your style.” It makes me wonder if my ideas of rejection and not being good enough were just in my head, or if those other girls from my teens really put them there.
What is it about the teen years that leaves us all feeling so rejected? And how come teenage kids are so mean to one another? There must be better solutions to change this behavior, and stop us all from talking about our damage years down the road. Or, are these just the American rites of passage, and we should just encourage the growth from these harsh encounters?
I was drawn into this article by your tweet about the “man-repeller” fashion trend and anti-sexy dressing/slut shaming.
As a naturally large busted yet small waisted college student, I always feel as if I’m waking the line between fashionable and “slutty”. Apparently even the recent retro and man-repeller trends become risque when worn by someone with large breasts. I’m very tired of my friends constantly making jokes and comments about my breast size when I’m wearing anything other than a t-shirt. It feels as if my body is constantly up for critiquing. Also, strangers seem to feel they have the right to ask me ridiculous questions about my breasts. I don’t feel sexy at all, rather I feel embarrassed and self-conscious, especially when these comments are made in public.
I have long been considering that the new man-repeller trend may be, in part, popularized by a new wave of women’s insecurities. “Do I have ‘too much’?” I’m not exactly sure what caused this initial fear, but I think it is definitely perpetuated by the fashion industry. I don’t think this is exclusive to breasts either. Legs, makeup, hair, and many other things all seem to cause insecurity in different people if they are ‘too good’ or ‘too sexy’.
Oooh yes, Eliza! LOVE THIS. You really hit on a nerve here. Because it’s not like we’ve swapped out a repressed culture for a sex positive one– we have both. And unfortunately what sex positivity so often leaves out is that just as sex is good so it not-sex. And that there are so many ways to be sexy and sexual.
And I totally get this vibe in sex positivity too. Like I catch myself thinking, Rachel, you really should make more of an effort to get into anal sex, or Rachel, you should really try having orgasms vaginally. As though in order to be TRULY SEX POSITIVE I need to push my boundaries, sexually, and become okay with things that I am just not, or don’t care about.
And you are so right, when I was writing this I was writing about feminism, not sex positivity. And I think the pressure to look a certain way are different in each. Though I do see this need to un-femme somewhat in sex positive/kink communities too. Though my pet theory is that there is no need to dress alpha femme in the poly/sex pos/kink communities because just being young and attractive and female is WAY enough. (These are small communities, even in NYC.) There’s no need to “shout” your sexuality like you do need to on any given Friday at a bar.
And I think not just teenagers are mean to each other, children as a whole are unbelievably cruel to one and other. I do have a theory as to why, but it is a bit of a tangent, I think that children’s rights are trampled ALL OVER in culture. Children have no say in almost all aspects of their lives, and most parenting models do not value children’s autonomy. Because of this kids have a sort of “slave mentality” where, I think, they take out their frustration with adults on each other. Just a thought.
I might be re-hashing things you’ve already said, but just a few quick thoughts in regards to geek culture specifically. I think there are a lot of confusing layers here, and I’m not sure what all the reasons/answers are.
Adopting certain modes of behavior to become “one of the guys” and integrate seems ersatz. I’ve witnessed men AND women shaming other women if perceived as falsely pandering for nerdy acclaim (even though men pander too for this with other men) — especially if perceived as doing so for men by appearing more femme/mainstream but speaking the lingo. Some women feel more empowered by owning their geek girlness (which for some geek girls means dressing sexier), but there’s the consideration that this can still be looked at as dividing the culture in crude sexual terms — male vs. female.
So basically, before geek culture became rabidly adopted into the mainstream, geeks were shunned because of the way they looked or the things they enjoyed. Now we’ve swapped that with geeks being prone to close ranks if another isn’t wearing the right uniform.
Hi Rachel,
The way I generally put this is that whereas women are expected to look sexy they’re never supposed to be actually sexual. Which is sort of the mechanics behind the expectation that women are supposed to be objects not agents. You’re expected to look hot to get selected, not ready to do the selecting yourself.
Also, if the commonly agreed upon expectation is that women are supposed to compete with each other for selectability it makes sense that women would tend to be both more sophisticated in their assessments, more discerning, and more aggressive about criticizing myriad transgressions.
What’s really whacky is that (as, say, Shulamith Firestone said) there actually are valid dimensions of both fashion and beauty. The problem arises when it loses its primary utility and becomes a fetish (in the non-sexual sense.)
I mention this mostly because it’s taken years to get the above points pounded into my tiny brain such that I no longer dismiss the beauty trap as women just being silly or superficial and “you all don’t have to go to all that trouble just for us men.” When it’s not really directly about men at all.
figleaf
p.s. If I was more of a Twitter user I’d tweet about the obvious thing about gender and fashion we all fail to see in “The Emperor’s New Clothes.”
Emily, !!! I’ve heard this before from some of my friends with bigger busts–that something that looks “normal” on me would look “slutty” on them.
Interesting idea on where the “man repeller” trend came from. I’ve been in an e-mail thread for the last few weeks with the super smart Danielle Meder of http://finalfashion.ca/ about fashion and feminism. We’ve been talking about how feminism influences fashion and vice versa.
Here is what I said to Danielle: “I always associated fashion with being affected by feminism: Thanks to first wave feminism, women got the vote–and shortly after come the flappers who were sporty and acted like men in ways that previous generations would have found distasteful. We have second wave feminism we most associate with the 60′s–which got women in the workplace, legalized birth control/the pill and helped divorce forgo taboo; suddenly hyper mini skirts and pleather boots are all the rage. We have the third wave, heavily associated with the 90′s and being pro-porn, pro-sex-work, which eventually spat out Girls Gone Wild and Paris Hilton.
With each wave of feminism, comes new fashion freedoms worn by the culture’s party girls–non or accidental feminists, celebrating their new rights. Though I’m not sure where it fits with the current incarnation of feminism–Internet feminism.” — But perhaps what we are seeing from women being more free to speak their minds/be themselves more than ever with the Internet is the man repeller trend. Or maybe just the man repeller trend is going against the last decade of Lohan and Britney.
Interesting, Danielle’s idea is that women have won certain rights AS our fashions have changed– as she says in an email: “I’ve often noticed that fashions visibly precede political change (for instance, women lost the corset well before they gained the vote, and wore pants well before the ERA – a more distant example is the way that the court dress of Versailles relaxed and sobered – visibly and ironically reflected changing attitudes before the revolution). This seems pretty obvious – fashions are easily adopted, visual statements, well within the abilities of the disenfranchised to “vote” with their dollars, fashion has an innate viral function which can modify the reactions of the more conservative to be more receptive to new ideas, and for the past 300 years, has been a uniquely feminine sphere.”
Would love to hear more thoughts on this. Especially because Danielle and I will be doing a post on these ideas here soon.
Allison, Yeah I agree I think the way this works in geek culture is multi layered and definitely worth talking about! So, I saw a thread on facebook the other day where a girl was miming a “hot girl who doesn’t play video games” trying to play by being all “OMG, what do I do! I died! etc. etc.” It was funny but I realize there was animosity there. Something I don’t sense would have happened if she were describing a non gaming guy. Even if they guy were making the same silly OMG statements.
There does seem to be a certain lack of respect for women and girl culture in these circles, but my sense is that a lot of this is just driven by sex/sexual competition. The women who are rolling their eyes at the “hot girl newbs” perhaps just want to be the alpha female in the room. And to be the alpha female do you slut shame the other female? Or side with the males? I’m not sure but a lot of it does seem to be driven by sex, not just sexism.
What do you think?
Ooh Figleaf, there is SO much in your comment, I would love to just sit with you and tease out all of what you said.
So if women compete, sexually, by judging one and other’s appearances or shaming one and other what is the male equivalent? I would love to talk more about sexual competition in this discussion too, because I think it plays *such* a huge part and yet it feels somewhat taboo to talk about. Why is that?
So are you saying that wearing heels and lipstick isn’t about men but about the sexual competition with other women?
ALSO, I think you are so right that the idea is that women are supposed to be sexy but not sexual. And I think we see this even in the act of sex itself.
I’ve seen this called “sexual spectoring” or “being a sexual robot”. Where women sort of go into the porn star thing and perform, instead of experience. Sometimes when I hook up with girls (and usually this is bi girls because my male partner is there too) I get the sense that this is what is going on, that it is very much an act–about looking sexy, rather than feeling actual pleasure. I know this is a generalization but it adds a somewhat disturbing later to this discussion too.
I really liked this post. And a lot of the comments were awesome. I hope I can add more to the discussion. :]
The thing that struck the strongest cord with me is the concept of beauty privilege. I know that you put it in quotes, but I feel that beauty privilege plays heavily into slut-shaming and sexual pleasure. As an unattractive girl, I often worry about my sexuality a lot. As a virgin I feel defensive that sexual pleasure and sensuality tends to mostly revolve around people who are already sexually active. I spend a lot of time worrying that no one would ever want me because of the way that I look naturally. So I often experience a great internal struggle when confronted with gender expression. Most women find make-up to be an automatic aspect of being a girl – but I’ve never been interested in make-up before. But I feel that if I want to be attractive (and be perceived as attractive by others) that I’ll need to wear make-up.
So regularly I feel that I must choose between being ugly or wearing a mask to hide my ugliness. In my experience, I have found that prettier girls seem to be more accepted by peers. And with beauty privilege, have been able to have more access to more power in male dominated fields. Someone mentioned Geek Culture- which I think is a good example of hot girls being prioritized. If you’re an attractive girl who likes games for example, it suddenly makes you significantly more awesome. And I think it’s easier to get access to male dominated circles when you’re good looking – which I consider an aspect of beauty privilege.
As an ugly girl, I often feel like I have no business having a sexuality or how to explore it. I have no business wearing dresses, heels or make-up. It’s better that I stick with jeans and sneakers because of the way that I look. But I don’t say these things to garner sympathy. I say them because that’s the reality of my existence. How can I be both ugly and attractive at once? How do I explore my own sexuality as a virgin?
I closely interlink gender expression with physical appearance. When a girl is pretty, she’s encouraged to wear all sorts of outfits and I feel is allowed more freedom. But when you’re ugly, it’s like playing pretend, like it’s not real.
Great post.
Rachel- oh, SUCH an interesting theory on why children are cruel. I’ve actually been considering this a lot, because of an old political argument that allowing women to vote is like allowing children, and thinking, huh, why aren’t kids allowed to vote? that makes no sense at all. but yeah, complete tangent for another time.
All of the fashion and feminism stuff is really, really interesting. Fashion has always been a part of political movements, from the sans-culottes to the kilt, even to the KKK. I had never considered before how women’s clothing has been so closely tied up with politics. It seems so obvious now. I wonder if the man-repeller trend has less to do with anti-femme feelings, or if it is more about trying to rekindle the movement of the 60′s, with big glasses and shapeless dresses and crazy prints. This generation has yet to really capture their own feminist movement, so maybe we are trying to do it by wearing another movement’s clothes?
I’ve talked about sexual spectoring on here before, but I do think it’s interesting how men are praised for their skill, and women for their looks. Even in the bedroom, this is definitely the trend for me.
I don’t think I agree entirely, though, that the slut-shaming has everything to do with sexual competition. Obviously, it plays it’s part. I know for me, though, the girl miming the hawt girl playing video games is funny not because that girl is a slutty idiot, but because that girl is being insincere. It’s the insincerity of certain women that drives me bananas. Women being fake goes across the board, but in this case, if you don’t like playing video games, don’t play, or if you don’t know how, ask someone, but when they put on a whole big show of being helpless, than it feels ridiculous. I think it’s easier to assume that girls with a painted face are less sincere, but it’s not a very fair judgement. I can be just as insincere if I say I don’t like a girly movie, or that I don’t read magazines.
Competition completely stems from insecurity, but I think being fake comes from insecurity, too. When I am not being who I really am, I lose my trust of others, and I start to judge them. So, I think a lot of feminists feel this pressure to be and look and act a certain way, and so when they put on a fake front, they start judging others more harshly.
But I do think that competition and femme hating also comes from the gut of society, which is that girliness is thought of as lesser, stupid, and pointless, and is therefore mocked and criticized. it’s disgusting.
Tatiana, I totally get where you are coming from. I was never the prettiest girl at my school, or even in my group of friends, for that matter. I have about a million anecdotes of me saying something funny or clever or doing something generally awesome, and guys giving my prettier friend credit for it. Seriously, a million anecdotes. For a long time I felt like I was just ugly, and that was the end of it. I felt uncomfortable trying to “be attractive,” because I thought I would fail. Sexuality and kissing and relationships were for pretty girls, and not for me. I didn’t think it was self-pitty, I just saw it as fact.
But I can honestly tell you, my thinking was really messed up. I wasn’t seeing myself clearly, but was completely buying into Beauty Privilege. It is true, that pretty girls get things, men’s attention being one of them, that I do not. They have a huge advantage over me, and always will. BUT, privilege is not happiness. I am white, and have privilege over TONS of people, but it doesn’t make me happier than they are. My happiness comes from my choices, my actions, and my reactions to what life has given me. Yes, pretty girls have the advantage, but their life is not better because of it, and they often are not having any more sex than the girls with less conventional looks.
For me, things really changed, and I started feeling a lot more comfortable in my sexuality, when I stopped trying to figure out what men wanted, but what I wanted. My first kiss was with one of the most beautiful people I have ever seen (truly), and I would never in a million years have thought he would ever want to kiss me, but it was because I stopped worrying about him not liking me, and started just going after what I wanted. I wanted to kiss him, and I stopped caring if I was pretty enough to do it. I started doing this in other areas of my life, and felt a lot better about myself. By seeking my own happiness, and finding what I really liked, I felt more confident. Because of it, I was able to develop close relationships with men, which only helped to boost my confidence.
Do I get the attention of every guy I like? Ha, no. Does it bother me? For a little while, but not really. Now I realize that there are tons of men (TONS!) who like unconventional-looking women. For example, I am flat as a pancake, something I thought would keep me alone forever, but I have dated plenty of men who love flat-chests, and would much rather have a flat chest than a big one. There is room in sexuality for everyone, and attraction is not about being conventional.
Also, technically I am still a virgin, and I am quite comfortable with it. I have done plenty of other sexual things, but for me, losing the v-card just hasn’t been my first priority. I have a much better time exploring what I like, what feels good, and what other people like, more than trying to get in on the whole sex thing. I have paid much closer attention to what I want, and what my body wants, than feeling pressure to just lose it already. A lot of my friends are still virgins, and some of them have only kissed one person, or not any people at all, but their sexuality is just as legitimate and important as mine, and their opinion is still really vital. Sexuality is WAY bigger than just having sex, and no one should ever make you feel like you don’t fit into it. It’s not a choice of having sex or not, it’s a choice of having sex or choosing to express your sexuality in another way.
Hope that didn’t sound too preachy, and sorry for such a long comment, but I thought you could use a little advice from one ugly girl to another
Tatiana- also (ugh! sorry for so much commenting! You just made a really good point!) the whole geek culture thing is so true. It’s not about being geeky, but about being geeky AND sexy. No geeky girls are getting media attention for liking video games unless they look like a model, too. The media myth screws us all over.
Tatiana,
It makes me sad to hear you describe yourself as an ugly girl
And here is the thing, it upsets me more because beauty just seems to subjective. Hence the air quotes around beauty privilege. While possessing looks that the larger culture finds beautiful does bring privilege, isn’t beauty still subjective? Or is what we find beautiful actually innate?
I really believed for a long time that beauty just = youth + wearing make up + right clothes/hair and having a cultural sanctioned “hot body”. Honestly, I’m still not sure that more goes into it…At the same time I understand the concept of “just having a pretty face”. And that when we talk about facial beauty there are aspects like symmetry, the whole golden ratio phenomenon of facial beauty being mathematically calculated.
So, what I am skirting around is “can you call yourself ugly” worded otherwise: is beauty a real and measurable thing? It’s hard for me to say yes, if for nothing else, because I have had so many moments and times in my life when I felt and truly believed that I was ugly. And I know that was misguided/about something else.
But if we do decide that beauty is a real and specific thing, then maybe there can be something freeing in “being ugly”. Because there is more to all of us than beauty. So being “ugly” could just be another human flaw. Like being too serious could be a flaw, or being shy could be a flaw. And if it’s just a human flaw, then there are lots of other things about yourself to polish, and let shine.
OMG, yes yes yes yes to Eliza’s comment. Tatiana just take it at that. This girl is on fire!! Never apologize for posting, Eliza you ALWAYS offer so much. Also, for the record I am ALSO completely flat chested and have somehow convinced all of my love interests that it is super sexy. And P.S. if maybe it makes you guys laugh, I was a total ugly duckling growing up. Yep, I was the uggo kid at school until I “developed” into my features. Seriously, as a baby I had the same face I do now. It looked weird.
Also, Eliza, to your point about co-opting the fashion of the past b/c we don’t have our own movement– SUPER interesting. Though, there is a necessity aspect to dressing in vintage clothes, and that comes from being broke and thrift shopping–AKA why I wear a lot of vintagey stuff–it seems in the last 10-15 years a lot of underground fashion movements have almost wholly been about co-opting fashions of the past. Surely, there is something more going on here?
Really curious what Danielle Meder (http://finalfashion.ca/) would say, might try to get her to weigh in.
I think there is a feminist movement happening, but it’s an Internet feminist movement in early stages (we are living in “the digital dark age” after-all). What I think this means for feminism is that the Internet is going to continue to being people the world over together–not just those in Western countries. We already see this in Google translate, for instance. So I think the next feminism movement is going to be more global, perhaps about helping women gain basic rights in non Western countries (and not pushing out Western ideals on them but trusting the women in those countries) or about bringing women together…I’m not sure.
What in the world kind of fashion could accompany this/help us get there? Man-repelling outfits aka anti-sex clothes? No idea.
Eliza and Rachel,
Thanks for the comment. I’m also an A cup and it’s like the core of my self-hate. I always felt like no one was attracted to me or could see me because I didn’t have large breasts or was very curvy at all. :/
Also – have you read the book by Ariel Levy called Female Chauvinist Pigs? It talks about what’s touched on in this post; this idea of performing sexuality instead of experiencing sexual desire. She goes and talks about Playboy and Girls Gone Wild. She also discusses women who act like men, in order to separate themselves from Girl Culture as I believe you called it. These girls who act like men in order to get ahead or to be seen as “cooler than other girls for getting it”. She goes to interview the people who created The Man Show, and how there are women behind the scene, and how they think they’re progressing because women are participating in the what’s essentially the sexual exploitation of women.
It’s a really great book, and a quick read. I definitely recommend it.
In How do you mean when you say competition. Do you mean when women fight each other other men? I saw a clip for this show called Jerseylicious where this girl loses her mind because another girl was touching her boyfriend. Is that a form of sexual competition? I have a friend who experienced a falling out with her girlfriends over a situation involving a boy and another girl liking him. Is this sexual competition?
I’m really curious to learn more about sexual competition and how it plays out between both women and men. Even though in cinema, you rarely see boys fight over a girl (unless it’s a teen situation), women are constantly bickering over men and suffering from jealous feelings. But I’m wondering if men experience this competition as well.
:]
Wow Rachel. Gotta get some ice to keep my head from swelling here!
The male-competition equivalent of the beauty trap is the worthiness trap. The traps work like this. In real life women (in the aggregate) tend to want their partners to be able to support themselves, to be generally active and involved, to want more out of life than beer and a TV or Xbox. Men turn this into a believe that by dating or not dating them women are arbiters of men’s worthiness. And so you hear stuff like “she’s out of my league,” or “she’s so hot only a millionaire could ‘have’ her” or “I’ve just got a beater car and a clerking job, she’d never go out with me.” In other words they turn a basic threshhold of acceptability into rivalries with other men. And of course they’re also competing with their own expectations of what counts as worthy. See also eternal carping about women and “hypergamy.”
With women it’s the same sort of thing only about beauty. Men, again in the aggregate, have threshold preferences, not maximum ones. This is reflected, among other things, in the typical bafflement men feel about the whole SITC Jimmy Choo shoes thing. And the “if I can just lose these last five pounds then I’ll look good” meme is kind of baffling too. Especially compared to how laser-like women can be about whether this is this year’s or last year’s leather jacket.
Ooh, not to change the subject but about the “man repeller” business? First of all if it felt like I couldn’t go anywhere at all without being swarmed by used car salesmen I’d probably try and make myself look like I really, really didn’t need and maybe couldn’t afford a car just so I could have a regular conversation or drink a cup of coffee in peace. I’d imagine women who get hit on all the time would be similarly tempted.
But related to the beauty trap and the notion of “dressing sexy,” oh, and the idea that men have threshold preferences rather than maximum ones: I’m always surprised when women say they’re surprised that they’ll be at the gym in sweats and all red in the face, or coming out of a grocery store with no makeup, or (this kills me) they wake up in the morning with bed head and men still find them attractive. This is because, I think, a lot of women look at clothes or hair or makeup as a way of signalling attractiveness. That leads to a disconnect because I think most men are pretty good at looking through all that for the actual person underneath.
Anyway, because we’re already used to looking at the person under the makeup and clothes (and not just in the “undressing with our eyes” sense) I’m not sure “dressing unsexy” is going to cut it. Given men’s worthiness trap insecurities trying to look non-haughtily judgmental would probably be better than just trying to look awful.
Hmm. Lots to talk about when I should be writing my own posts instead.
Not sure where you live, Rachel, but if we’re ever in the same town it would be great to spend time sitting across a table with you! I’m not sure exactly when I started reading your blog but I think it’s been a couple of years.
Oh, one last thing, about pressure to be sex-positive. AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! If someone’s making you feel pressure they’re doing it wrong. And if you find you’re pressuring yourself stop and take three deep breaths. Because “sex positive” isn’t a hill there’s a top of. It’s not like aiming for the lowest possible score on those old purity tests. Instead it’s about getting and respecting! that people don’t just have kinks, they have squicks too, and sometimes they’re just unmoved either way. Which is why my favorite determination is how tolerant someone is of flat out asexuality. If someone can’t stand or can’t believe that anyone could be genuinely uninterested in any kind of sex at all then they’re a heck of lot more sex-negative than they think they are. Not to mention uncool.
Anyway, it’s fine to give anal or g-spot orgasms another try if you think there’s a pathway to success for you somewhere in there. But if anal just doesn’t appeal to you or if g-spot stimulation just makes you want to pee then… don’t! Because if there’s pretty much nothing less authentically sex-positive than holding your nose, or your bladder, or otherwise turning yourself off while performing to make someone else happy.
figleaf
As a gay woman, I feel INCREDIBLY pressured to look a certain way! I look like the stereotypical straight female – I have long hair, I adore wearing heals and bright red lipstick is my thang. So yeah, I definitely feel like when I go to gay bars people assume I’m there in an attempt to appear ‘cultural’ and politically correct because I’m just showing moral support or something, or they think I’m bi-curious (which is shunned in the gay community as attention seeking). I’ve never had anyone explicitly tell me that what I was doing was wrong per se. I’ve also found that throughout my coming out process people have been a little bit more accepting because they think girls who choose to not wear makeup and cut their hair short are threatening. Oh noes! The scary lesbos! But Camilla’s okay because she looks normal! It’s quite amusing actually.
However, I have never found myself in competition with other girls for wearing makeup. I usually find that I am treated better, which kind of sucks, because I would live in my pajamas if I could.
The other day I was reading an article in Elle about Amanda Seyfried, and they were saying how she was worthy of being cover girl because she’s pretty, but like, not too pretty, because of course then they’d have to totally hate on her!
Rachel,
Firstly, I loved this post, and it really got me thinking about myself, and how I perceive myself as femme and am guilty of slut-shaming at times, as I feel we all are guilty of at one time or another. Your comment on women in two spheres that are commonly male-dominated, the nerds and the atheists, are something I can comment on directly as I’ve been a part of these two groups for many years, and have consistently been in the minority as a female.
In the nerd group, femme/attractive nerd girls constantly have to prove to the male set that they’re worthy to be there, and not just moonlighting in the comic shop because the lead in the latest comic book flick is hot, or we’re not going to D&D events solely so we can act out our damsel in distress fantasies. At least, this is the reaction I’ve gotten to being a girl in the nerd world. I’ve been given poor service at my town’s comic shop because I’m a woman, and I’ve been followed from the shop’s D&D events to bars down the street solely because “you never see hot chicks at these things”. It’s upsetting that nerd media and games cannot be enjoyed sans gender labels and judgements.
Now, onto the atheists. I’ve been a member of my college Secular Student Alliance for a couple of years, and until I became president, the group had only seen two women in positions of leadership, and then it was at secretary. In our small group, women have always been a minority, so I feel proud that I’m the first female president of our group, but I really don’t understand why more women aren’t coming to our group. Perhaps, once again, it’s the idea that atheists are a predominately male group, and not a place for women, given that many of the group have strong, outspoken natures, and outspoken women are still shamed for being such in our society. Coupled with the label “atheist”, an outspoken, godless woman seems to be anathema to our society, which I find offensive, and tragic. Personally, I’ve never really struggled to find my identity as an atheist woman, but my relationship to many men in this group was being “one of the guys”, but I never feel like I’ve had to compromise my own brand of femininity in order to be a part of the atheist community.
Tatiana- oh man, you have no idea about flat chests. I am literally as flat as you can get, and believe me, it’s awesome. a lot of guys are really, really into it, and biologically, flat chests are more sexually sensitive than bigger breasts. so be prepared for awesome times had by all.
Rachel- I think you’re right about the feminist movement being digital. All political movements are turning to the internet, just look at Egypt. I’m not sure if this makes me happy or sad, though. I like that feminism can reach everyone, but I think there is something missing from less personal contact with the movement.
In not trying to push Western ideals, I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and in convo’s with my brilliant sister, she said, “I think the biggest problem facing women is that the world literally HATES women. So the biggest political move, and the most feminist thing I can do, is stop hating on myself.” I think she hit the nail on the head. I think when we truly love and respect ourselves, and don’t spend our time trying to push others to “what’s cool,” we will help women.
Tatiana, I think female competition is all around us, and is a lot of what we are describing. I think it’s girls picking other girl’s looks apart, I think it’s girls aligning themselves as one of the guys, in order to diss other girls, I think it’s girls not “approving” of other girl’s outfits and looks. i think there is more to each of those things, but that part of all of that is competition.
Figleaf, Maybe that’s why I feel a little alienated from the “Man Repeller” thing and some of the ideas of Slutwalk (that hitting on women in public = bad) because I LIKE being hit on! When I am wearing make up and heels and leave the house, I expect I will be hit on. That said, I understand women are never “asking for it’ when they receive unwanted attention, but as Glickman said to me, fashion is a language. And I know and own what I am saying when I leave the house looking sexy. I suppose so are the “Man Repeller” girls too.
Camilla, thanks so much for sharing!! I so feel you on this and it’s interesting to see how strong you are, because when I was younger and trying to solely date women I know that my femme-ness was something I felt so guilty about, like I felt just bad and wrong over how femme I had been and like it was silly and stupid. Argh.
China, !!! I am so with you on the atheism community thing. There seems to be this idea prevalent in these communities that a woman who is high femme, who wears make-up “just has low self esteem”. I am sorry but so, so much more goes into the language of fashion then self esteem! having fun with fashion, playing with a sex role, exploring femme-ness or girl culture are not markers of low self esteem. Where did this idea come from and can we squash it?!
Eliza, Yes, yes yes. My idea is that self-work has a place in feminism and in sex positivity, but sadly this viewpoint is not very popular. I think once we understand ourselves and can help ourselves we can better help other people.
I believe that there is certainly a lot of secret animosity and jealousy among a group of female friends, when they go out to a club or party, etc, and there is always that one girl that is more curvaceous, who dresses in a way that shows off her figure, then when she does get attention from guys, her friends do get jealous. Even if a woman who dresses in revealing (slutty) attire is amongst friends she may still feel guilty for getting more attention from guys then the other ladies in that group are getting. A woman could be naturally curvaceous and yet whether she has had a implants or not will always be on people’s minds, for men and women. Its like no woman can be a D sized cup without having implants these days.
Cool, I’m really glad you posted about this. I think the man-repeller thing has less to do with “slut-shaming” and everything to do with a western bias against obvious effort.
My thoughts from a fashion perspective – I think the reason why fashion tends to frown on “dressing sexy” has to do with the idea of “trying too hard”. There’s this myth – peculiarly, only in western fashion – that making too much of an effort is unchic (in eastern cultures, this is not a problem – fascinating article here http://neojaponisme.com/2011/07/19/on-fake-glasses-in-japan/).
The idea is that overdoing it reveals a lack of taste and restraint. Whether it’s too much makeup (even Duchess Kate gets flack for this), or wearing an outfit that shows off both breasts AND legs (as Blake Lively does, and gets nicknamed in the fashion ‘sphere “Boobs Legsly”), anything that seems try-hard gets smacked down by the fashion police.
“I hate hard workers. It must appear to be casual.” – Karl Lagerfeld
The irony is that it takes just as much work to appear “effortless”, but it’s just considered more tasteful than going all-out. I think this is also reflected in the types of romantic interactions that are considered “cool” – it’s never considered good to appear to eager, too available, too enthusiastic – the appearance of casualness is key.
The other thing that I think bothers me personally about the modern super-sexified look is how artificial it is. It just doesn’t look sexy, to me. When I see an over-photoshopped men’s mag, or a girl with thick foundation, or hobbling around in what are obviously uncomfortable shoes, it pains me a little bit that this is supposed to look sexy in this day and age, and its so restrictive and fake. I have to agree with Tom Ford that the 1970s perfected sexy-natural, which I think remains the fashionable – not the mainstream – ideal of sexy. http://amypieterse.tumblr.com/post/1653229425/our-beauty-standard-today-is-harder-its
I remember when I was younger I did my fair share of femme shaming (especially high-heels, being bad for people’s feet and all), and it absolutely stemmed from my understanding of feminism at the time. But I don’t recall any guys other than myself doing that.
Most of the slut-shaming-spectrum I have seen has been pretty intra-women, and is less frequently (though still sometimes) done by men. And speaking to women I know in real life, they seem to confirm it: the large majority of slut-shaming they experience comes from other women. And their impression is that it stems from a sense of competition. Perhaps it is our culture’s version of chest-puffing and getting-in-your-face, except for women. Sort of.
I do notice in myself that I take women who behave “femme” less seriously at first, and that they have more proving to do before I do take them seriously. But I react the same way to guys that behave “manly”. Both the hair-twirling woman and the chest-puffing man get similar reactions from me, save that the latter also triggers a mild fear response (depending on context).
I am not entirely sure what all causes that, though. Certainly media has had an impact on me, but I am not convinced that is all there is to it. I do not think that femme-ness in women or manliness in men causes people to be less intelligent or rigorous or capable of taking care of themselves or whatever other factors make a person worth taking seriously. But I think it is often the case that unthinking people tend to blindly perform their gender according to cultural expectations, so the end result may still be that outwardly femme women/manly men in the population are more likely to be unthinking sorts. Which would then lead many people to develop an association between the two.
Hi I havent read the comments.
I don’t like the concept of ‘femme guilt’ i can’t quite articulate why though!
I suspect it has something to do withhow I no longer identify as a feminist so anything that focusses on how ‘femininity’ comes with automatic disadvantages in society rings alarm bells to me. Try wearing dockers and jeans and a crew cut to an office job as a woman, and you may see what I am trying to say…
Danielle, Yes! Awesome comment. I agree with you that trying too hard=tacky is a Western idea, and yet strangely, that image of over-accessorizing, showing “too much” skin, and all around trying hard seems to be particularly American. In that way that if someone told me I “look American” I would consider it something of a put down. And, I do associate it with a a certain class, it’s a “mall look” or “American trash” culture/look.
And I do think there is some guilting we do culturally here. While for me, femme guilt was tied to exploration of my sexuality and gender, there is an element here of casting off my “American trash” past. During my “femme guilt” phase, I had just moved to a city for the first time and “got” the whole minimal chic thing. I felt embarrassed by my layers of necklaces and fishnet gloves and tons of rings, etc. I find it interesting that when I started dressing more minimal is when I also experienced all of this guilt about my past hyper feminine “trying too hard” self.
Xakudo, I feel like we all do this thing where someone has to prove themselves to be smart if they are “conventionally hot”. The thing I don’t understand is why intellectualism and fashion seem to be at odds (Danielle, any help here?)
I had this moment in a bar in Brooklyn a few weeks ago. I was out with my partner, and we met up with this guy he had met at a party. I think I was wearing black short shorts w/fishnets, top and a black hat (this hat: http://rachelrabbitwhite.tumblr.com/post/7909537514/in-central-park) . They were talking and I sat there, looking pretty, dressed “young”. I felt like this guy was checking me out. When I opened my mouth and wanted to talk about the topic and had a lot of ideas, I could see this look on this guy’s face was completely turned off. I got the feeling I had been someone else in his mind completely. I was much better before I opened my mouth. It made me want to stretch my brain more, make extra stinging statements, use “bigger words”. He sort of moved his barstool away from me.
In this example though, I am not sure how much it was about dressing “hot” but rather dressing like a “hot” 19 year old rather than 26 year old–which is something I seem to have been doing lately, and certainly gets me different treatment.
—————
Quiet Riot Girl, Interesting! Especially because I feel like it’s the feminists who have made women feel bad for their gender and their sex role (the idea that gender roles are tools of patriarchy!) and that it’s feminism which has given women femme guilt in so many ways. And, to your point about dockers and a crew cut, certainly, it’s not easy bucking the gender role you are supposed to fit into. But don’t feminists love that? Also, would it be out of line for me of me to say that your look sounds quite hot?
LOL It does sound hot but I just used it as an example! I wish I had the guts to be a proper butch. I think I’d do it well. As it is I am just a kind of slightly tomboyish woman. Who sometimes ‘drags up’….
Yes I think what you are identifying is a contradiction within feminism. On one hand it says ‘reject gender norms’ but on the other hand it says ‘but only if you do it the correct way and in the correct contexts/costumes’…. I could elaborate on this but I am a bit feminism-ed out. I will get back to you. I like your points. I think it was the ‘guilt’ idea I wasn’t so into.
Hi.
This is my first time posting here.
You posted:
“Not to get all “hey hipsters, isn’t non conformity still a uniform?” But the whole point of questioning gender roles is choosing what you want to keep and what you want to move away from. “My belief is that if we don’t let ourselves do something because its part of the box, we become as much of a prisoner of it as the person who can only do things because they fit into that box. And true freedom only comes when we can pick and choose which things are worth doing and which things aren’t.” Well said, Charlie.”
I’ve struggled with this conforming-to-the-counter-culture idea for some years now. I’m not sure about much of his other philosophy, but I found this example of Authenticity from Erich Fromm (a German-American Jewish social psychologist who passed away in 1980) that resonates with me, and I think is in-line with what you’re talking about:
“…However, a very different definition of authenticity was proposed by Erich Fromm in the mid-1900s. He considered behaviour of any kind, even that wholly in accord with societal mores, to be authentic if it results from personal understanding and approval of its drives and origins, rather than merely from conformity with the received wisdom of the society. Thus a Frommean authentic may behave consistently in a manner that accords with cultural norms, but for the reason that those norms appear on consideration to be appropriate, rather than blindly, simply because they happen to be the current norms. Fromm thus considers authenticity to be a positive outcome of enlightened and informed motivation rather than a negative outcome of rejection of the expectations of others. He described the latter condition – the drive primarily to escape external restraints typified by the “absolute freedom” of Sartre – as “the illusion of individuality”, as opposed to the genuine individuality that results from authentic living.”
Thanks for talking about this.
P.s. I have told Charlie I don’t agree with his Man-Box theory! We had a few words but pulled it back. I like some of his work- especially his consideration of sex work as important. But I don’t like how I think he and other men feminists ‘pathologise masculinity as if it starts from a position of being a ‘problem’ and you have to work to be a ‘good man’. See also The Good Men Project. We don’t have The Good Women Project do we? Because women are considered virtuous already.
QRG, yeah I could almost put “guilt” in scare-quotes the same way I do “beauty privilege”. Such an interesting point about “Good Man Project” and Charlie’s box theory. Except, I feel like there is probably a female equivalent “box” that can be just as harmful. But yeah, seriously, that attitude that all men need to be reformed by male feminists strikes me as evangelizing and just untrue.
Hey Noah, Thanks for posting this. Interesting to see some actual philosophy behind the word “authenticity” which we see thrown around all the time among the self helpy bloggers trying to sell you a better life. What I’ve learned with the way I want to dress, subcultures I want to try on is to just trust my gut and go with the direction I am feeling. What could be more authentic? But for people who are worried whether or not their look is “authentic” I think that could prove very valuable.
Slut-shaming is a form of sexual bullying. We see it in some cultures which force women to complete cover-up, so that their own identities are lost. We used to see it when homophobics insulted the gay community. We also see it when people claim that toddlers running around naked on a beach are “inviting” sexual attention. Sexy does not mean sexual. Nude/naked does not imply sex. In my opinion, this down to two things (1) Poor sex education (not reproduction) (2) A more judgemental society caused by intolerant newspapers and TV soaps. Perhaps we need an International Tolerance Day.
I preface this by saying I’ve only looked that the original ‘Man Repeller’ blog, but it instantly seemed to me that it’s like a version of the trend for Birkinstocks and other things originally considered horrifically ugly. It’s essentially the idea that one is so naturally attractive that it shines through even ‘ugly’ clothes. The desire to be that girl about whom people say ‘she’d look amazing in a bin bag’. Which has its own status and privilege.
Also to the posts above from girls identifying as unattractive… I’m in my mid-thirties, a time when the status of youth is leaving you! But at work recently we were discussing secret celebrity crushes – ours and our partner’s. And the best thing was the diversity of women that men secretly find attractive. I’m in the UK so my examples probably won’t mean much, but conventional ideas of beauty were nowhere! These guilty crushes seemed to be all about perceived personality and attitude. It’s so hard to keep that in mind at all times, but really women’s figures and looks are not all we’re judged on – it just feels that way a lot of the time.
I wrote an article relating to this a while back. I don’t think I want to link to it, but I’ll share a couple of the ideas. First of all, I think it’s very evident that much of our sexuality is shaped in adolescence, that time when we probably aren’t having the sex we want (if we’re even having sex at all.) I know I can look at my own sex views and see how my adolescence shaped them.
Second, it’s interesting how fashion choices are sexual (and thus political). Eliza mentioned that how she dresses isn’t what is normally considered sexy, but she feels sexy dressing like she does. So, I think we need to start looking at our fashion choices in adolescence.
I want to link to an article by Jennifer Moses titled “Why Do We Let Girls Dress Like That?” http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703899704576204580623018562.html?KEYWORDS=jennifer+moses
This article interested me because Jennifer Moses buys her daughter clothes that are provocative and sexual, and she admits to enjoying the thrill she gets from advertising the sexuality of her daughter, but when it comes down to why her daughter wears these clothes, Moses places the blame on herself for buying the clothes for her daughter and society for making her daughter want to dress like that. Adolescence is a time in our lives when we’re first understanding personal choice and getting our own shreds of independence here and there, and I think clothing choices are a big part of an adolescent’s personal choice and independence, and Jennifer Moses completely ignores her daughter’s choice of fashion and thus ignores her sexuality.
I think we need to start looking at how adolescent girls dress as a sexual choice. It’s like Moses describes: advertising a girl’s sexiness. But we as a society refuse to believe our precious little girls are interested in sex, which is why we can’t come around to admit that girls dress sexy in order to be sexy. If an adolescent boy has a Playboy under his bed, we KNOW why he has it. But if a girl has a poster of Taylor Lautner with no shirt on, it’s because she has a non-sexual crush. If a boy is working out trying to pump up those biceps a bit, we assume it’s to get female attention. If a girl wears provocative clothing, we take it to mean it’s because society pressures her to do so. We don’t assume boys are doing these things just to keep up with the other boys, but we assume that’s why girls do these things. We have no problem admitting the sexuality of our adolescent boys, but we just can’t seem to make any progress in admitting the sexuality of our adolescent girls. And because we come up with various reasons why our adolescent girls dress a certain way, we take away their responsibility for their sexual choices. I think this all gets confused because many women claim to not dress that way for men, but then they get called a slut when they dress that way. Women are not given responsibility of their own sexuality during adolescence, so they get confused when their clothing becomes sexualized by others. I think it’s instinct to show off what you got in order to attract someone for sex. I think most creatures do it, and humans are creatures with instincts. The only difference is we humans aren’t slaves to our instincts. We can choose not to act on them.
I think all this is very damaging and probably very confusing for women. I’m a firm believer in accepting our choices and actions. I believe that’s all we are, and that is how we must be defined. So, when women are together, they understand the “proper” way to dress…the way they were taught doesn’t make a sexual statement. However, if a woman walks by showing a bit more skin than they’re showing, they shame that woman for turning clothing into a sexual choice, which, again, they were taught is not a sexual choice. And sexual choices are considered taboo for women because they weren’t given responsibility for their sexuality during adolescence. So, while competition may be a part of it, I think it also has a lot to do with taboos and our own upbringing.
Also, completely unrelated to my post, small breasts are amazing. That is all.
For the record, I DO own my desire — that’s why I’m saving it for marriage. I own it, and I only want to give it to one man. Therefore, when I dress I choose to not show cleavage, any leg more than four inches above the knee, any skin more than three inches down my back or chest, and don’t wear heels, because I own my sexuality and choose to keep it to myself.
Excellent post, even as I disagree with parts. Particularly this: “But the whole point of questioning gender roles is choosing what you want to keep and what you want to move away from.” Is it? Is that the point? And can we ever really make these choices freely as long as we live in a world with pretty rigid gender roles? I don’t think we can; I think that as much as we feminists want to think that we might be making a particular choice because, well, it’s a choice, that it’s not a choice made in a vacuum.
All that said, I think the contradictions are fascinating, and worth exploring–I just don’t want to tell myself that there isn’t a contradiction there.
BK, I hadn’t responded because I wanted to take the time and give you a longer response as that comment pretty much blew my mind. I’m always trying to figure out a way to talk about the “sexualization of children” that brings into account the fact that it’s adults sexualizing and yet children and esp adolescents are sexual beings. Would love to keep thinking/writing/discussing that one.
Autumn, you make an excellent point. I also wonder if this is where some of that femme guilt stems from– because it cannot be completely chosen and controlled.
In my opinion, growing up gregarious and blonde and sorta brash, I always felt that acknowledging this too much was going to be a losing battle. That said, I also made it a true absolute effort and mantra to spell out my intelligence while wearing whatever the hell I wanted to. And I have found through my own style expression that there are way to confront all of these tensions that just simply exist:
1. Female tension when you look too good: A fucking smile, and a bit of bolstering up whomever is around you. In this capacity you are the example of the freedom they might actually want, freedom to wear what you want (if you are confident in what you are wearing).
2. Female tension that you might be acting too slutty: Act a little european and see #1. You can’t win every battle.
3. Male tension when you look too good/too flashy: Again, this will happen no matter how much we discuss it so just act confident, tell them you have a brain. I’ve found there is absolutely a way to express your own intelligence through style even if it is aggressive – interesting angles, things people have to think about – that cuts through the tartiness of what would otherwise be considered too poprock girlie.
4. Overdoing it is not the same as dressing ultra feminine – So I somewhat disagree with some of your post. If you want to wear red lipstick, don’t wear the same color super tight dress with extreme platform heels – that never looks right anyway. But you can wear the dress or the heels or the lipstick and look completely sophisticated. You also need the confidence.
-cc
Just re-reading the post and the comments. Christine’s at the end is great – I agree that shaming is an unfortunate phenomenon, but will never be eradicated, and her tips for just dealing are the real deal.
I was revisiting a post I did about It Girls yesterday (shameless plug: http://finalfashion.ca/what-it-is-for-it-girls-and-fashion/) and it reminded me of this post – just because, the attractive and magnetic are envy-provoking as a matter of course.
My other thought has to do with how fashion doesn’t square well with concepts of equality – including feminism – because it has a hierarchical nature. Some people will always be more privileged, more beautiful, more fashionable, more sexy, more IT, than others. If all things were visually equal, fashion (and attractiveness) would be a moot point, and this discussion would be a lot more dull.
I get the idea of striving for equality in the eyes of the law, but more and more I wonder if achieving visual equality in the eyes of human beings is a utopian fantasy, and honestly, I wonder whether that type of equality is even a desirable fantasy. Perhaps the tensions, envy and shaming are side effects that can be tolerated in exchange for humanity that is visually textured, complex and fascinating.
5 Trackbacks
[...] On a related note, this post explores and asks questions about gender roles, slut shaming, and why people conflate dressing femme with expressing sexual desire. [...]
[...] Rachel Rabbit White discusses the fashion question for feminists and queers. Do you ever wonder who you’re dressing for? Maybe for other girls in order to be accepted? Or maybe to attract male attention? Perhaps you feel the pangs of feminist guilt (thank YOU, Naomi Wolf!) when you do dress up? Or maybe you feel conflicted about what to wear when you’re attracting the same sex? We’ve all been there – whether you’re a feminist or a queer. Girl culture demands that we be our best selves physically, but like, not TOO pretty, because that’s just threatening. Feminism and queer culture asks that we subvert traditional gender stereotypes. Is your head exploding yet? How does one attain this level of unthreatening sexiness? And how does one look like they like girls, but not too much like a boy because obviously that’s counterproductive? Wear heels and you might encounter a ‘more feminist than thou’ attitude, or wear heels and people will assume you’re straight. Is their freedom in choosing what you want to wear? (Rabbit Write) Time for sweet androgyny! [...]
[...] Femme Guilt and Women Slut Shaming Women OR Don’t Dress too Slutty if You Want to Make Friends! Glickman brings up an interesting point: “I’ve talked with bisexual women, who look stereotypically femme as opposed to queer femme. And they go to these lesbian bars and everyone assumes its their first time or they are slumming or they are the nervous straight women trying to find someone to bring home to her husband…. But among gay men there is a certain amount of privilege from being straight looking in certain circles.” Men have their own gender box to conform to, but I wonder if there is some version of masculine guilt or femme guilt among men. (tags: body.politics lgbt) [...]
[...] Femme Guilt and Women Slut Shaming Women OR Don’t Dress Too Slutty if You Want To Make Friends… – Rachel talks about something I’ve been pondering ever since this post, and I threw in a few cents worth of opinion too. [...]
[...] whether I can demonstrate that fashion is indeed an indicator and an instigator of feminist ideals. Rachel Rabbit White inspired me to take that thought and run with [...]